From Every Nation
The From Every Nation Podcast is designed to encourage and equip the next generation of missionaries to take the gospel into the world. Join us as we interview missionaries to hear first hand about their life and ministry. Learn firsthand what strategies, barriers, and opportunities they faced on the field. The FEN podcast also equips you today, for the missionary work the Lord has planned for your life. The FEN podcast is the official podcast of the Tom Elliff Center for Missions at Oklahoma Baptist University
From Every Nation
The Smiths: Answering God's Call Pt. 2
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Join us as we recount part 2 of the Smith’s compelling journey filled with divine guidance and unexpected transitions. Starting with a pastorate in Indiana, and eventually returning to the field, each step reflects their unwavering commitment to living out God's call.
Discover how they navigated the complexities of balancing family life with field work during a time filled with frequent travels and changes in assignment. Culminating with a surprising reassignment in Virginia, where they embraced new roles directing orientation for new workers.
Finally, reflect with us on the importance of faithful obedience and adaptability as we shift through different stages of the Smith's journey. Thier story is a testament to trusting in a divine plan, demonstrating how every chapter in life is interconnected and contributes to a larger mission.
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Welcome and thanks for listening to the From Every Nation podcast, the official podcast of the Tom Eliff Center for Missions at Oklahoma Baptist University. I'm Kyle and I'll be your host as we learn to live as those sent out to spread the gospel. So it sounds like it was a really great kind of first couple years in Mexico. You wrapped up the adoptions and, Kay, you were just talking about being pretty content in that first time of life there taking care of the kids. So what was next? Where did you all go? What did you do? So what was next? Where did you all go?
Speaker 2What did you do, kyle, when we finished the first term? We were back on what was called furloughed in stateside now, and at that time it was a matter of continuing to understand the Lord's guidance. When we had been called, we didn't have this real strong sense we're supposed to go do this for a lifetime. That came later, and the Lord made a more clear picture later, but that first time we had felt like the Lord had said come over here and help us, like we mentioned, and so we felt like we were supposed to go, and so at that time we were aware it's quite possible God was putting us back into the pastorate.
Speaker 2I remember at that time we had already been pastoring for seven and a half eight years and that we knew that that was part of the gift set that God had given us, knew that that was part of the gift set that God had given us, and so with all of that we came back not real sure exactly that we were supposed to go back, and so that was a possibility that we would be returning to the US. Also, with getting settled with Daniel and Katie, it was going to be good to be in the US, and so, with all those pictures together. We were back in the States. I went back to Southwestern where I'd gotten my MDiv Master's Divinity and then started on a doctorate of ministry from Southwestern, and it was during that time that First Baptist Chakotah, oklahoma, asked us to come as their pastor.
Speaker 2Home of Carrie Underwood Home of Carrie Underwood Can't go without mentioning that Her name is on the sign, and so it was there that we returned to the pastorate in the US. Absolutely loved being in the church. I've told a lot of guys along the way. God really made it just an amazing blessing fun. I love studying God's Word and preparing sermons and visiting people and doing the pastorate, and that was also a really good match for Kay. We were near our families. How did that work out, kay?
Speaker 3We were about an hour, hour and a half from Albert's parents, and so our two little bitties got to see their grandparents a lot, which had been our. You picture that on the field you think, oh, our grand, the grandparents aren't here all the time. The truth of the matter is, when they would come to visit us on the field couldn't watch TV it was in a different language we didn't have. We saw a lot of things and we traveled a bit, but we really had really quality, in-depth fellowship when they did come on the field, but this was a little bit more often and our children could spend the night at their grandparents and I could do some things more with Albert. And then those gifts that the Lord had given me as pastor's wife, I really, really enjoyed it. So Shikota was good for us, but then there came a time where we just felt like we needed to be more where the gospel was not.
Speaker 2We've told a number of people, if you've been on the field and you've been working in places where they've never heard how to be saved, obviously in Mexico people had clearly heard the name Jesus, whereas so many places in the world today they haven't even heard his name.
Speaker 2In Mexico they'd heard the name of Jesus, but most people we talked to during that first term had never understood how to be saved. It was their first time to understand salvation by grace, through faith. And so when you've experienced that, if God has wired you for missions part of your gift, set part of your passion for missions, part of your gift, set part of your passion for missions then those same things that were absolutely wonderful before, you see a little differently. And so, while we thoroughly enjoy the pastorate had wonderful, wonderful people in the church at Chakotah, at the same time there was this sense inside of us that we think the Holy Spirit had put there, that there were places that didn't have churches that didn't. And so, even when we were assuming we were going to be in the US for the rest of our lives, which was what we assumed at that point we were very aware of places in the United States that had very few Southern Baptist churches.
Speaker 3And there was a time where Oklahoma Baptist and Indiana Baptist had a partnership and they shared pastor exchanges for a period of time where groups from Oklahoma would go to Indiana and we were contacted by a small church plant in Fort Wayne, indiana, that wanted a pastor and wanted to plant a church, so that really sensed the Lord's leadership in that.
Speaker 3Well, as we prepared to get ready to go for that, we still were going to Mexico on mission trips. Part of Albert's DMIN project was how to help a local church maintain a kingdom focus and a focus for eternity by stimulating their side of the nations. And so one of his project pieces was to do an overseas trip and of course we took them to Mexico and while when we got back I was I have, I was always sick a little bit in Mexico, off and on with my stomach, but got back and was very sick and like I had not been before, and and the end of the matter is that Albert said I think you're probably pregnant and I said no, I'm a nurse and I know these things. That's probably not it, but it was it. And so in the middle of that move, and certainly nine months after that, we welcomed Carissa. She was born in Fort Wayne, indiana.
Speaker 2The time with missions and then a new child, would kind of picture what was going on in our lives at that time, in that Kay once again was helping a little bitty newborn. And now we were back away from our parents again, much, much closer than when we'd been in Central Mexico, but still not having them extremely close my parents, in case parents would come and visit us, but it was a day's drive to get there.
Speaker 1So at this point you have three.
Speaker 2We now have three.
Speaker 1And they are. How old are they all now? I mean Karissa's just born.
Speaker 3Yes, Daniel is six years older than Karissa and Katie is five years older than Karissa. So we teased amongst the four of us. Well, she was quite a surprise, to tell you the truth, but also we kind of were a unit and we talked amongst the four of us. We were going to have to kind of open up and let her in, and we did. But they still kind of have the idea that there's four people in this parenthood that we have with Carissa that they're kind of secondary parents.
Speaker 1They're part of the village that raised her Totally.
Speaker 3She's married with two children and they still are under that assumption.
Speaker 1And Carissa's opinion.
Speaker 2She doesn't quite see it that way, of course.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah yeah, I wouldn't either. How funny, how funny, but those two. So Kay's focus was there. We were back in church planting mode, again this time in the United States, and again just some wonderful people that we got to work with in Fort Wayne, indiana. But we built into the very beginning of that new church involvement in missions, new church involvement in missions.
Speaker 2Like Kay said, the church in Chakotah had been going once a year on mission trips in the United States and outside of the United States, and in Fort Wayne we were bringing those people on mission trips and so that was just kind of woven into the DNA of the new church in Indiana. Um, and so, like I mentioned, that had been the focus of the demon. So a whole bunch of our life was was focused on, um, teaching God's word, uh, pastoring people, but also involving people in going to the nations, uh, so so that was, that was, that was just something that the Lord had continued. Again, like we had mentioned in our very first pastorate, right as we were getting married, that was built around taking a church to Honduras, the first church that we pastored, and so this has been a part of what was going on at that time.
Speaker 1So Missions was new to this church in Fort Wayne, Indiana, or no? Well, it was a brand new church Brand new church. Okay, brand new church.
Speaker 3Had not even organized yet.
Speaker 1Right, okay, it was a plant. So how was Missions received? How did that first trip go? What were kind of the impacts of building that ethos into the church? Different churches like that can go really well. That could not go well.
Speaker 3I think it went really, really well. I think they picked up on our enthusiasm and really just an attitude that of course we do this. This is just what churches do. We partner with people on the field where the gospel is not known and we partner with missionaries on the field. So of course we had them partner with our friends because that's the easiest way to do the logistics of the trip and we ventured out. But once you take one trip, those people come back so excited they tell others who tell others. So we always had a full slate of people to go. Daniel and Katie and Carissa were kind of tiny but we could leave them with Albert's parents and then sometimes they went with us. We could leave them with.
Speaker 2Albert's parents, and then sometimes they went with us yeah, I would say in that church, particularly because we began as they were organizing as a church. That was just part of what we were doing, and so by no means did everyone in the group want to participate, but it was kind of assumed, like Kay said. Again, as a new church we were able to make it where, although we were giving 10% to the cooperative program, we were also from the budget designating another percentage for missions we were regularly going, and so the ones exactly like Kay said, the ones that were participating, were positive, and so the church was completely open to it. Of course, not everybody wanted to be a part, and yet as a whole it was very positive and well-received. It was during that time I hinted at this earlier it was during that time that the Lord started just clarifying that, while I had clearly just prayed to the Lord and asked if we could retire as the pastor of that church, we were hoping to. Of course, we were in our early 30s at that point and so I was wanting to just make that our life's work. We were hoping to have one place in the Americas and one place in Asia that didn't have the gospel and that church would be a part of reaching it. We wanted to be non-resident missionaries as a church that was reaching two different places in the world, and that was part of the vision we had. The Lord knew we were supposed to be back in the States for those years. It was a blessing for the citizenship processes of adopted children. It was a blessing for many, many things, but it wasn't long till if some speaker at a meeting started talking about missions.
Speaker 2For the first time in my life, I had to walk out of the room because tears were flowing, and I don't remember tears being a very common thing in my 20s. We do have pictures of our wedding day, where I was quite something really different, and so we started talking about Lord. What are you up to? We would talk with each other about what the Lord was doing. At first Kay said I don't have any sense that that's what the Lord's doing. And then, after maybe a few months or a year, she said I think that's a possibility. And then she got to a point where she said if you can say the Lord's telling us we're supposed to go now, I'm ready Now. How was it that you got to that process. Some of the steps along that way honey.
Speaker 3We had a really sweet church family. We've been able to pastor some of the most godly saints the Lord has had on this planet, but that was no exception in Fort Wayne, and so we would have pastors come and do Bible conferences and this particular man came and did an evangelistic service and we had it in a hotel and he stayed with us. I mean, everything happened out of our house, you know, wednesday night studies happened, deacons meetings, committee meetings everything happened out of our house and he was staying with us and I was in the kitchen one day, out of our house and he was staying with us and I was in the kitchen one day and he said you know, you're doing everything. You're leading the children on Wednesday night, you're homeschooling your kids. You're helping Albert, you're helping him as he pastors this church.
Speaker 3What is that behind your back? That you're doing all this stuff if the Lord won't ask you for that? That you really it's kind of off limits. You've put something back there that you're not willing to give up. He said it's just. This evangelist was well known for a gift of discernment. So I just turned around like how in the world did he know? But I don't even know that he knew what he was knowing.
Speaker 3But I said we are really struggling with a call to go back and frankly, I like being a pastor's wife, I like living in the States with access to our parents and our grandparents. At that point and he really said what you would expect him to say. But we say we surrender all. And so first time had been hard for me to go. I did it out of obedience, because the Lord told me to, but my right heel was stuck. But now I have three kids in tow and I know that if part of my heart is holding back, they will know. And kids get pretty messed up when their parents say one thing and their kids know that their parents' heart is really another way. So that was part of my hesitation. But then Albert came home from this one particular meeting and said If I had to tell you what the Lord is saying, he's saying that he will discipline us if we don't go back. Whoa, Now those are really serious words.
Speaker 1Very serious words.
Speaker 3And I really don't want to get in that line, because the Lord is quite able to make his point clear.
Speaker 2I remember that was on a Thursday when I told her that.
Speaker 3So Albert said well, let's just pray for a week and if we both sense that, we'll call the board in a week and tell them what we think the Lord is saying. I said, if you think the Lord is saying that, why would we wait a week? That would give the Lord entirely too much time to discipline us. So we did call the next morning.
Speaker 1The next morning, you know that sounds like the start of an Albertism that we hear all the time. There's no better place for you to be than in the Lord's will. So if you know what it is, why wait?
Speaker 3Why wait? Because you know, just like before, when it was such a struggle for me, the Lord had to deal with me in some ways during our first term, in a quiet behind the scenes backside of the wilderness, with some things in my heart. This time I knew I had to go wholehearted, or I was really gambling with my children's heart and with my own really. But as we prayed through that, the Lord was really really sweet. There's a passage in Deuteronomy that says there's a land that drinks the rain of heaven. Do I not care for that?
Speaker 3And I just needed the Lord's assurance, like I told Albert something we can go to the bank on, because those hard days do come and you go. I really would rather not be here, but you are there because you know you're supposed to be there. So in a lot of ways, when I and that evangelist his name is John Carl Davis when during the invitation he said don't you want to share this struggle that's going on in your heart? Really, pastor's wives aren't too keen about that in front of everybody especially this one.
Speaker 3But when I surrendered all we got. Albert said we had to get reappointed because he had a new wife and the Lord took my heart of stone, gave me a heart of flesh. We got back to Mexico. We went to Mexico City after that and were reappointed. Went back to Mexico City and I can remember being in the grocery store and you know what? I belong here. I belong here as much as anybody born here, because God sent me and he has a plan.
Speaker 3And there was just such a release to live in the gifts that he had given me. We had amazing missionary models and one of them, alan and Rebecca Alexander, and she grew up as an MK. She's fluent in five languages. She started churches with an accordion, a backyard Bible club with a well baby clinic. She's just amazing. But that's just not who he made me and God. Through the years I've realized God uses the spiritual gifts he gave me, but he doesn't expect a return on His gift. But he doesn't expect from me what he put in others. He expects a return on the gifts he put in me. That is a lot of peace and that's a lot of freedom. So I went back. It was just life-giving yeah.
Speaker 1How did the church respond when you told them about the call on your life?
Speaker 3I think every time we've left a church they may not be able to vocalize it, but I think they've known, I think they especially that one. They, we were small, we had grown together, we'd, we had weathered some things together, some trials together, just even having a place to meet, and how do you start a church? But that we were very close with that church and they just looked at us like yeah, makes total sense. So we were going to be appointed in December and we were going to leave right before appointment, resign and leave and move out of our house. But Albert's grandmother died the week before and then we just the timing. We thought can we go to the funeral in Oklahoma and then come back? And our church family said we'll pack up this house with you. And so they just worked with us for two days, got us loaded and sent us on our way with lots of blessings. They came to see us on the field, even came, I mean, just checked on us. It was just a totally different experience.
Speaker 1There's something cool about being surrendered. What were the kids' responses when you started telling them hey, we think the Lord's leading us back to the field.
Speaker 2Yeah, we had started to practice, even when the children were pretty young, to try to make significant conversations After enjoying our meal out which, at the young family stage of life, finances weren't there for that to happen very often, and so it was a special event. And then we went to a Mexican restaurant and we shared with them that we were going to be moving back to Mexico.
Speaker 1What a fitting place to drop that news.
Speaker 3Yes, yes. And so Carissa's two and she loves life, and even if she could understand all of it, she would have been cool with that. Daniel. On the other hand, Katie is quieter. Daniel, on the other hand, is halfway through his enchiladas and he figures out what this means and he puts down his fork. He says I can't even enjoy my enchiladas. Why did you do that?
Speaker 2So that's how the kids took it, Okay. Okay, Now the Lord was so gracious. They had friends at the church in Indiana, but really, really amazing set of friends in Mexico City. Live friends that they had known from our first term. And then there were new ones that joined, and there was just a little gang of kids their age, and so the Lord was so gracious, he provided abundantly for them was so gracious.
Speaker 3He provided abundantly for them and we homeschooled. When we first got back to Mexico City on the south side of the city and our dear friends David and Ann Boyder live right down the hill we were teamed together and then we moved to the north side of the city and I homeschooled for a little while. But when it takes literally over an hour in traffic to get to the grocery store much less how much time it takes there and an hour back, just it was a heavy load and we were constantly having to readjust the load. There was a small MK school that we joined in North Mexico City and that seemed to really provide the balance that we needed.
Speaker 1I just want to take a second.
Speaker 1What a powerful testimony of the Lord recalling you all to the field.
Speaker 1That was powerful and encouraging to hear how the church joined you, to hear how the Lord led you, to hear how the Lord brought people into your lives that weren't a normal part of your life, to be a big part of that call and to just walk with you all so well in that, and it's just very encouraging. It's always very encouraging and challenging to hear you all specifically talk about how you follow the Lord's leading, leading Whenever it just it's different than most people, I think, or at least to me it feels different, but it's also so challenging and so encouraging, just the way you all are so quick to open your hands and say we don't want to be in disobedience, we want to be in the Lord's will. Lord, I hear you say we want to be soft clay, we want to be molded and we want to be where you want us and, I think, myself and, prayerfully, our listeners. There's a lot of really good and encouraging things to be learned from your story. So, yeah, a little aside there, but it's just a very encouraging story.
Speaker 2Well, that's an encouraging word, Kyle, and it's such an incredibly central part of our understanding of the Christian life, central part of our understanding of the Christian life. Without any question, the kingdom expansion in our day is richly blessed by people who go in their mid-20s and they retire in their early 70s and have 50 years of service in one country. That's an amazing, beautiful picture. At the same time, it's fascinating to me that, for whatever reason, the Holy Spirit didn't choose to put one of those examples in the New Testament. And so, please hear, that's an amazing blessing to the kingdom, amazing blessing to the kingdom. And yet what our experience has said is that there's not a cookie cutter way to serve God, and our experience has said that God, the Holy Spirit, in a number of translations, one of the names that he's given is guide, and so, instead of saying everyone has to do it the same way, god comes to live inside of us and be our guide. And so I couple that core assumption with the core assumption of now what do I believe about God? Who's smarter, god, or am I smarter than God? No, no. And so who loves the most? God does? Who's all wise? And so the idea that says if I know what God wants and I'm convinced that that's what he wants, then that's the best thing I can do Now. Without any question, I know Albert's very fallible and I can misunderstand what I think God wants, but I've just decided that I have to act on it if I think this is what the Lord wants. Now. I wish I did that every minute of every day a whole lot better. But we are amazed Right now. The International Mission Board has seen a number of people go back to the field. We have several friends that served for a long period of time. They were back in the States and they've gone back to the field and it seems like that. I'm not sure if it's true with all agencies, but certainly with the International Commission Board. It seems to be something that God is doing and that they're facilitating God's call on people's lives in that manner. When we did this back in the mid-90s, that was not the perspective of the Foreign Mission Board, and so it is interesting to see how what the Lord did in our lives seems to be more common today than it was in the past. But we just love to tell people you're just supposed to follow what you think the Spirit's saying. Of course it has to be consistent with everything in Scripture, but within the parameters of Scripture, he still wants to guide, he wants us to follow him, and it sure is an adventure following him.
Speaker 2We were back in Mexico City, or we were living in Mexico City the first time. Our first term we'd been about 40 miles west of Mexico City, in the state capital of Toluca, but the second term we were right in the middle of Mexico City, while we were in Fort Wayne. During my quiet times, I felt like the Lord took the passage in Ecclesiastes where he said don't put all of your treasure in one place, you don't know what disaster might come. Instead, spread it out to a number of places. And I felt like that the Holy Spirit was saying that's how I needed to approach. Ministry was not, uh, just focused on only one single um uh place. And so as we went back to Mexico city, we, we, we try to be involved in a number of of church plants, uh, and, and actually two or three of those things came up and as far as we know, no church was ever planted from that group of new believers. But we were able to see several churches form and one of those was the church in San Juan Ixtayopan on the far southeast side of Mexico City. That church was a church that then started the church. That started the church. The pastor that was named as pastor as the church was being organized is still the pastor of that church today. Just an amazing man of God. So many beautiful things out of that term working in Mexico City.
Speaker 2Our colleagues in Mexico City at that time, the International Mission Board, foreign Mission Board, was transitioning from field-based decision-making to more of a organization-based decision-making. But it was still at a time where the field elected who the leaders were going to be. And so in the last election, the Mexico City missionaries voted for us to be the coordinator of the work, of the church planting work, not the seminary work, not the office work, but of the church planting work in Mexico City. And so it was. At that time we really just fell in love with giant cities. Mexico City at that time would have been 20 to 24 million people, one of the larger cities in the world, and we loved getting to know it. We enjoyed finding out places where there wasn't work. We came, the Lord guided, to a vision for what could happen in that city.
Speaker 3It's called First One.
Speaker 2The First One we were looking at. We thought God's desire was that 10% of that city would be evangelical Christians and we wanted Baptists to reach the first 1% of that as their part of kingdom expansion to 10% evangelical. And it was just an exciting time of focusing on the city. I still remember I was driving around a kind of a rough. It was a thoroughfare on the north side of the city. Other parts of the city, that thoroughfare they were just amazing great roads. The north part of the city was a little rougher and so where I was, I still remember driving there and for the second time in my life I said Lord, I'd sure love to retire doing what I'm doing. I'd love to spend the rest of my life in Mexico City. Well, as has been the pattern in my life, it was a few months later that, in our quiet time, felt like Lord's kind of stirring something's going on.
Speaker 2And Phil Templin at that time he was the regional leader for Middle America and Canada, mac. He had been a pilot in the Air Force and a military career before becoming a missionary and just an amazing godly man, great leader. He called one day and said Elbert, why don't you sit down? I said, okay, I sat down, he said you've been focusing on 20 million people, I want you to focus on 100 million people, and he invited us to move to Guatemala, where his office was, and from then we were developing church planting strategies for all of the Spanish-speaking work in Mexico, and then, after a couple of years, that expanded to Mexico, to Panama, focused on the Spanish-speaking work in those places.
Speaker 2And so another move, and again, we are just fans of those people who go and spend a career in one place, who spend reaching out to different groups within one country. That's a beautiful picture, but we do recognize that the Apostle Paul had a different ministry, and so, while ours seemed a little bit unusual, we also find a lot of biblical foundation for that. So we're convinced that God does things in a unique way with each unique person, and so he had clearly guided us by his word, and so we found ourselves living in Guatemala.
Speaker 3So I believe we took the children out for Mexican food again I mean, not too many Guatemalan restaurants, you know in Mexico City and we told them we didn't really get the pushback that we had before. I think perhaps we were just in a great spot. The children were flourishing, they had friends, but because of God's goodness, their faith and their trust that he is good had grown, and certainly mine had. And then, as the Lord is just so amazing, we did missionary work, we did new church plants, we did Bible studies. We helped small groups Bible studies turn into missions and then later churches. We did do all that but guess what? God was using in my life, those gifts as a pastor's wife, to now nurture our co-workers not only in Mexico City but in all of Mexico. Certainly Mexico's our very first love. And then Mexico to Panama and it was just amazing, life-giving, exactly where we were supposed to be for that period of time. So we get to Guatemala and there is a MK International School there and the kids do fairly well. Carissa just hops in full feet. She was in first grade and Katie was in sixth grade. We've done sixth grade in three different countries. It's just tough. There's just nothing easy about sixth grade and that would be. So. That was a bumpy year and Daniel was in seventh and we just partly because of our amazingly mature colleagues that helped our kids navigate that really well and then they were in a great school, had friends really quickly.
Speaker 3But it did mean that Elbert traveled a lot. So he interviewed, for after Phil called him, he interviewed. Part of the process was to interview with Avery Willis and Elbert asked him how much he would have to travel and he said, well, that's really up to you, but you will have to decide and you will have to discern that with the Lord. So we had talked to some people and we decided that it really felt like the Lord led us to 10 days a month. It couldn't total more than 10, and it couldn't accumulate more than 10.
Speaker 3We just, you know, and to this day we kind of pumpkin at about 10. So that takes a lot of hard work and rearranging and a lot of hard work on Albert's part to plan that that way. But we got in a rhythm. We were there five years. We got in a pattern where we kind of have patterns that we do every day and we don't quite eat the same things when Daddy's there as when Daddy's not, and how we transitioned to daddy coming back. But those were rich and really, really big years, but also years of seeing our kids' faith grow and them grow in the Lord.
Speaker 1So you had that lifestyle for five years yes, Roughly, where you were gone 10 days a month. What were some of the family disciplines or things that you all instilled in those years to really help maintain healthy family unity?
Speaker 2Kay has a number of gifts, but she is an amazing administrator. She is good at organizing things and I would say the Lord richly, richly blessed the way that she had our family, our home, in order, family, our home in order. We both worked out of the office for the region, and so Kay would go to the office most days of the week, but the way that she structured our home would be the biggest way that God blessed us. How would you describe that?
Speaker 3way that God blessed us. How would you describe that? Well, if my kids are home, I'm home, so I do kind of like to work in the office. And Albert would get 100 to 150 emails a day. That is unsustainable when you travel like that and when you're trying to think about strategy. How are we going to reach every man, woman, boy and girl Mexico to Panama? And some emails are what time does that meeting start? I can handle that, so what I could handle.
Speaker 3And then Albert handled the other stuff. So I would take the kids to school, work there and then pick the kids up, but in the afternoons after they kind of had some free time and a snack, then we did homework and then we did dinner and then we did our nightly devotions. We started when Carissa was there reading she was the last one to learn to read but one chapter of the New Testament every night and the children have to read it. And Albert's rule is you have to ask a question or make a comment, unless you're a visitor, and your first time you're free. So it takes a little while when you're first grade to read a chapter, but we do it. And then the Lord just led me to have different prayer calendars. We had a family one and we had one for the personnel that we related to, and then we just would go over to the living room, get on our knees and we each had a different prayer calendar, a different country, a different person in our family, a cousin or an uncle, and we just prayed and it didn't take a huge amount of time, but we did that every night. And I tell my girls now, who have our six grandchildren you have to do your dailies. The Lord can really—.
Speaker 3Good daily disciplines are important. I think that comes from nursing, but it also get up at the same time every day, eat at the same time every day, get to bed on time. So we were in bed at what Americans would call a really early time. We were in bed at what Americans would call a really early time. But even in junior high and elementary and high school our kids were in bed at 830. But guess what? They weren't sick and we were careful what we ate. We ate fresh things and we do our dailies.
Speaker 3The main daily you have to do is meet with the Lord every day. I cannot tell. Albert says this isn't true, but it really kind of is. I'm the wimpier of the two of us, but I have to meet with the Lord, cannot do it, can't be the mom I need to be, can't be the wife I need to be, and I sure can't live somewhere and do what the Lord wants me to do without meeting with Him. So if you've gone to bed early, when we were in BSU, in college, they said the secret to a good quiet time is a good bedtime, and so those just the kids knew what to expect. Every day, daddy's here or not, we do this every day. We do this every day.
Speaker 3And those were busy years. Kids in sports all over Guatemala City, and you just do it. But God, so, so faithful. I think we, the Lord was really, really good. We had some back in Mexico City in that second term. We had some family tragedies and I think we could really see our kids come to the end of that, having grown back in Mexico. Albert's parents were meeting us on the border and were in an accident and he was killed, and so we overnight felt like the baton had been passed to us, to immaturity and walking with the Lord and being desperate for Him. And walking with the Lord and being desperate for Him. And so you could see those seeds of sorrow, that last term in Mexico. You could see the fruit of maturity in Guatemala.
Speaker 2The time in Guatemala was focused on empowering others. I've shared with a number of new missionaries. When you have the privilege of focusing on frontline work, run hard. You don't know how long you'll get to do that. And for us it asked being asked to take a different assignment, and so we had. Was it seven guys? Um, that that, uh, our title at that time was the strategy strategy associate for the regional strategy associate, but so each field had a strategy coordinator for the field, a field coordinator who worked with strategy coordinators on the teams. But those, those that group, were just some amazing couples.
Speaker 2Buddy Albright had been the missionary in resident when, uh, he and Gene had missionaries in resident when we were new missionaries, uh, back in the eighties, uh, going through orientation. Well then, he was now one of my field coordinators. But this amazing hero of the faith, who they had served for 20 years in Africa before transferring to Mexico, where they stayed another 30 years, and just amazing man of God and saw scores of churches started through the people that he encouraged. Gerald Hill had transferred from Gerald and Carolyn had transferred from Southeast Asia, where they had been on a team that saw a church planting movement. Alan and Rebecca, alexander Kay had mentioned the lady who spoke five languages. Well, so we reached a time where, technically, I was supposed to be their supervisor, but that was just kind of that would be a little comical, no, no, we just got to serve together. Comical, no, no, we just got to serve together. And and the way that Phil Templin did leadership is, he felt like his job was to remove anything that would keep us from getting the job done, and so it was just a joy to try to get to do that with the group of guys that I worked with Um and then and then they were seeing the Lord just work in wonderful ways. Some of those people, just dear friends, the Nill and Lee and Tremie, were in that group. So anyway, just some amazing people that we got to work with.
Speaker 2But also I enjoyed math in high school and, starting in our first term, I would find all the research data I could find, and so I would crunch numbers and say, okay, what do the numbers tell us? Well, now I was crunching numbers for much larger places, and we found an area in Mexico that was less than 2% evangelical, while parts of the country were 5% to 7% evangelical. When I then put the data onto maps. It looked to me like it was kind of a funny-shaped heart, and so we started talking about the heart of darkness, where there were millions of people 10, 12 hours from the US border At that time, a little less evangelized than the country of China.
Speaker 2When you took the country as a whole, of course, china had hundreds of groups that were far less evangelized, but the country as a whole would have been more evangelical than that area of 20 million in Mexico. And so that was just an exciting, challenging time where you were able to say where is the gospel not? And then how can we work for it to get there? When we started our five years, the International Mission Board had one worker in that area, and when we finished there were 20 workers there, and so we were just trying to say how do we line up the work with what reality is and what the Spirit's doing? And so those were really just rich days.
Speaker 2And again now, for the third time, I remember clearly praying Lord. I sure would enjoy retiring in this job. This is just the greatest job in the world. So, not to be too surprised, we were asked to go to the learning center in Virginia to be the missionaries in residence for one group of new missionaries. Well, our kids met some brand new MKs that were on their way to Thailand and they were all going to be in the same school in Thailand. Going to be in the same school in Thailand. Well, after we were there in Richmond that summer, our children asked us would you pray about us moving to Thailand, all three of them separately? Would?
Speaker 1you pray about us moving to Thailand.
Speaker 2We think we're supposed to move. And Kay and I said, well, we don't sense that, but of course we'll pray about it. And so within about two weeks, all three children then said, eh, we take it back, we like where we are, we want to stay where we are. Well, the Lord was putting things in place within three or four months. Kay and I felt like that is what the Lord was saying, that he had spoken through our children.
Speaker 2Normally, when we made moves like this, there were five or 10 ways we could point to where we felt like the Lord had guided through his word, through circumstances, through other people, and we felt like he was telling us that it was time for us to go to the lost cities of Asia. And so we went to our regional leader, to Phil Templin, and asked him to pray with us. Templin and ask him to pray with us. And he sent letters to four other of his colleagues, the regional leaders that had work in that part of the world, and David Garrison was one of those that he wrote to and he said Elmer, why don't you make a list of all the stuff that you do in your current job? So I wrote out a list of about 30 things that I was involved in in some way, and David was just brilliant he picked eight things off of that list and he turned them into a job description.
Speaker 2There you go, and so, just through a lot of different ways, we felt like that that's what the Lord was saying to us. And so, after five years working in Guatemala, we found ourselves now taking a junior, a sophomore and a fifth grader across the Pacific, and we felt like the timing that the Lord gave us was for it to be over Christmas break, so they were in the middle of a school year. Now we've been talking about it for months. We had reminded them that the Lord told them first.
Speaker 3And of course we had to take them out for Thai food to tell them the final decision and so.
Speaker 1Did they see it coming at that point?
Speaker 3They did not see it coming.
Speaker 1Really no. Wow, you would have thought so yeah, but Third time's a charm. They really should have figured that out.
Speaker 3Daniel is one of my favorite people in that he's very serious about his food and time to eat and we eat, and he's very serious about when it's time to go sleep. He's very disciplined in that way, so he, halfway through his meal again, is going. I can't even finish, but also.
Speaker 1Just just bring me a box. You messed it up, yeah.
Speaker 3Nor does he really want to get. If he's going to bed at 9 PM, he really doesn't want to get into a big conversation at 8 55. I mean, he's very disciplined and I really think that's really strong and good about Daniel. But Katie, she's really related to me. She goes way deep in relationships. It takes her a long time she and I take over a year to get settled in a new place, but we go deep and we really like it where we are. Carissa she's related to Albert. Let's go. It's a party, so something new, ready to go, and that has served her very, very well.
Speaker 2So we again, I did not say this is the perfect place, but we went there with the idea that we were in our mid-40s, early to mid-40s, and thought, okay, this would give 20 years in South Asia. So we joined the South Asia team. We joined the South Asia team. What we didn't know, of course the Lord did, is that that was not the assignment he was getting us ready for. We'd gotten to a place where we really felt more comfortable in Latin America than we did when we came back to Oklahoma on vacation. We were very they would prefer to be there to any place on the planet, and so we had long since forgotten what it had been like 20 years earlier to be brand new missionaries. Well, going to Thailand, the Lord reminded us of that. When you go somewhere and you can't speak the language and when you try, they still can't understand you Brand new job that you're trying to get used to, trying to get used to a new culture. And so it was in the middle of that. That was it.
Speaker 2Maybe we'd been there way less than a year when Kay said in my quiet time, I think the Lord's saying he's sending us home from the ends of the earth, and so she mentioned that a couple of days in a row and then I said, no, I'm not seeing that whatsoever. And then, after a few more days, she said well, I think that's what the Lord's saying to us. And so I said, well, having a little ornery streak here, I said, well, have you noticed that he's saying that to you? Like something might happen to me and maybe I'm not going home?
Speaker 1She said you can't say that, oh Bert, oh my gosh, it's terrible, it is.
Speaker 2So, anyway, after a while I said I think maybe. And so we decided it was going to be two years till stateside. It was going to be two years till stateside, and if halfway through our stateside nothing had come up, then we might see if God was doing something. We might act on it. So we decided to act on it. Two and a half years later, well, jerry Rankin was in Thailand planning a future meeting and he and I were sitting down working on details of that. And then he said, albert, I need to visit with you about something else, and he brought up the possibility well, asking us to pray about being the director of the orientation of the new missionaries. And so I'm taking notes of what he said. And Kay and his wife, miss Bobby, had been out visiting. And then, as we were about to leave, brother Jerry said Well, you have a very nice evening, albert.
Speaker 3And he just smiled very honorably and Albert said Well, you have a very nice evening, albert. And he just smiled very honorably and Albert said well, you have seen to that. I could not believe Albert was speaking with such disrespect. He just does not do that.
Speaker 3We also had Katie with us, so we really couldn't even walk to the car. And what are you doing? So we, you know, I looked at Bobby. She didn't look, she didn't give away anything, and Brother Jerry was enjoying whatever this was. And Albert just says something like that. So we walk out.
Speaker 3I'm trying to read his eyes, can't say anything. We have long since learned don't talk in front of the kids because you can't take it back, you can't they go to see. Anyway, you can't do that. But oh, it's hot that day in Thailand. So we decided to stop and get Katie and Albert and Icy on the way home, and I didn't want one. I stayed in the air-conditioned car, it was so hot. But then it dawned on me. I know Albert well enough.
Speaker 3If Brother Jerry said something that caught him off guard or that he wanted to make sure he got straight, he would have started writing it down. I'm tearing that car up, looking for that pad of paper Elbert had in his hands. So they're in there and I pull it out and I start reading that he's asking if we will pray about going to Virginia. And God, in his kindness it told me ahead of time. Because the Lord has to kind of do that with me, because I go down deep, I kind of like not as crazy about change as some people in our family are, and so he kind of tells me first it's not that I'm that smart, it's just he needs a little more lead. You know runway time. So I'm reading it and I'm just burrowing back into the car seat trying to talk to Elbert with my eyes and mouthing words, so Katie in the back seat can't tell what is going on.
Speaker 1But this is still within your first year. Oh, yes, yes.
Speaker 3So we really hadn't figured out what the Lord was doing. Anyway, we came back Our new supervisor would be Ron and Janice Wilson godly, godly people, people of prayer but they very wisely asked us to come back to Oklahoma for a month before going to Virginia, just to change our hat and to just put into perspective what all the Lord was doing. And while we were here, we had lunch with our former pastor, brother Nick Garland, at First Baptist Broken Arrow, and he just sat down and he said what is going on with y'all? This makes no sense to me. We just sent you and we said actually it doesn't. This makes no sense to me. We just sent you and we said actually it doesn't make a lot of sense to us. So we told him what happened. He goes oh, I get it, I get it. And we said oh, please do tell.
Speaker 3Please tell us what you think the Lord is doing here and he said I've watched you guys. You would rather be in Guatemala or Mexico City than you would here in Broken Arrow your kids, y'all. If you went straight from that to help new people, there would be no mercy, no identifying with them, new language, leaving everything, packing everything, moving. The Lord put you way out of your element in Asia for such a time as this to bring you back, so you would never forget what it meant to be new. There we go. Yeah, I think that's it.
Speaker 1You know, this is the first time I've heard you all put it that way and from my perspective and this is what you're saying too that just makes so much sense for people who have done the work for so long. But then for the Lord to say, hey, I need you to remember what this was like, to get off the plane knowing this is a one-way ticket. You don't know anybody, you don't know where you're living, you don't know the language. You just left the place where you know all those things and he wanted you to teach all these people. Wow.
Speaker 3And I think what would you call that, secondary culture shock or second time culture shock is harder, I think, than the first time. At least it was for me. I can say that because I expected it the first time. I expected not to know, but we'd been doing this a little while. I at least felt like I could find my legs underneath me, but I couldn't, and you know-.
Speaker 1This is in Thailand, in Thailand.
Speaker 3You know I'm the girl that you know you take off to go to a new place and I'm in culture shock before the wheels come up, you know, certainly before they hit the tarmac coming down. But the Lord in His grace, he sees, he knows. But you know I think I probably said this before my favorite verse and certainly was all those years we were doing new missionaries is 1 Thessalonians 5, 24. He who calls you is faithful, he will do it. And I think it's just what you said, kyle, is he was faithful and he did do it.
Speaker 2And I think you're exact. That's how we saw it, kyle. We have such great respect for Pastor Nick Garland and he had blessed us previously, but he really did provide the insight that helped us to see what was going on. We ended up spending 15 years in that position, directing the orientation for the new missionaries, and it happened to be when a whole bunch of people were going to the field. The International Mission Board was sending large numbers. There were a number of new orientation groups that had 250 new workers plus their children, and so it was just an amazing time that we got to spend with people going to the field, and the Lord was using our time on the field. He was using the pastor gifting where we were both ministering to them hospital visits, hospital visits, counseling questions, all kinds of biblical questions, hospitality we would have large numbers in our home, and so the Lord was putting all the pieces together and our testimony is better to not have a plan of my own but to follow His plan, because His plans are just better and he's doing things that we couldn't dream of, and we certainly never dreamed of such a role, but we were very, very grateful. It's a little bit about what we're doing here at OBU getting to use the years on the field but also teaching God's Word to encourage the next generation, and so we see how the Lord put that together.
Speaker 2During those years there was freedom to teach. I got to lead quite a few of the sessions, and so sometimes people would ask you know, you sure are excited about this topic, haven't you taught this? For you know years? And one of the nice things was I only kept the topics I was passionate about. I gave away all the other ones, and so it just turned into a really special time.
Speaker 2At that time, a lot of the people had just finished seminary, and so the International Mission Board had an initiative to have more people with PhDs, and so we were able to join the first cohort at Southeastern Seminary, and again, that was a rich time to be studying the literature while we're getting these people ready to go to the field. Just a rich time in our lives In I guess it was early 2000, we were asked to pray about moving to a training center outside of London, and so, of course, we said we would be glad to pray about it, and Jacob Boss, a very wise no, yeah, the year 2020,. Excuse me, I don't even know what I just said.
Speaker 3Where were we?
Speaker 2So in 2020, after we'd been doing the other job for 15 years and Jacob Boss invited us over and again through his word, through circumstances, through differing ways, we felt like the Lord was telling us to say yes, and Jacob and Elizabeth were just so gracious. We had an office in a beautiful training center south of London and it was while we were there. I was on the street in London with Roy and we were looking at Muslim work in London as a possibility and Brother Tom Eliff called and then later, heath Thomas called and asked us to come here, and so we found it really interesting by going back to the field, we ended up spending 30 years. We completed 30 years with the International Mission Board while we were in London and that gave just a serendipity, a little completely unexpected thing where we were just very humbled that the IMB let us be a part of a group called Emeritus Missionaries, and so, coming to OBU in 2022, we're back full circle to where we met.
Speaker 2We're continuing to pour into the next generation, using the academic preparation that he opened the door for over the years, but also we see that he's putting together those years in the Word as a pastor and getting to teach God's Word, but from the perspective of a field missionary, using things like all the time spent crunching numbers and finding out what's doing and passing on that desire to another generation to be carefully prepared as we follow Him to the ends of the earth, it's just been amazing for us. We're enjoying being back in Oklahoma, being back where we met each other, but also pouring into those going to the nations.
Speaker 3I would say those 15, 16 years in Richmond, really let us finish raising our kids while they were under our roof. So all three kids graduated from high school and went to college, the girls to Liberty, and that's where we got our sons-in-laws and I got to work in the clinic as a nurse and those were sweet years, getting to encourage our personnel, particularly our women and children say this is normal. No, we need to tend to that. This is how we're going to stay healthy on the field. So really pulling together those years in Richmond to now we get to be in Shawnee and it is wonderful to be home.
Speaker 2But now, while we were in Richmond, you were working in the clinic there, but also you were working with the Americas and then later with Europe. So the Lord really used your nursing and he brought that back to the forefront.
Speaker 3He did, and he was so sweet to do it after the kids left home, so I got to really spend time. Other people spend time differently, but spend time the way. I knew that he wanted me to do that, and so we get to OBU and it's sweet, it's very sweet to be here.
Speaker 2Our testimonies. The Lord's the guide, and his ways are good ways.
Speaker 1Yeah, I want to make a comment here and then we'll take a break and wrap up, and I do want to circle back to time enrichment, because I think we went through that pretty quickly and I personally have a lot of questions about it, and so I'm sure some of our students and listeners will too. But I think this has been really encouraging to me and I really hope our listeners pick up on it too, because one of the big reasons I want to just let our listeners and our students hear the stories of missionaries, of people just doing their best to live faithfully and obedient to the Lord. It's one just so encouraging. But that encouragement, I think, for me really springboards into I too can be obedient in this, I too can walk in this way, and I want this has been exactly what I want I want our listeners to hear this from our other stories too, from other believers to just say you know what, if they could be faithful, if they could be obedient, if they could walk like that, I can walk like that through the Lord's power in my own life too, and this has been really encouraging to just watch, season after season after season of your life, you just saying, lord, we're opening our hands.
Speaker 1Lord, I think you're calling, I think you're moving us. We're going to be open to it. We're not. We are rooted here. We are running hard here, we are doing our work here, but it's the Lord's work anyway, and so if it's time for the Lord to call me somewhere else to do work, then somebody else is going to pick it up here, or the Lord's just got other plans, and I mean the Lord can juggle all this. We just have to be faithful and walk in the thing that the Lord has called us to for that season of our life, and I really want our listeners to hear that over and over and over. And this has been just an awesome example of that, and so we've been talking for a long time at this point.
Speaker 1So we're going to pause, take a break and we'll probably pick up another time, but I want to give some more time to your time in Richmond. So thank you all for your time today and we're going to pick this up again here who knows? Pretty shortly, I assume. But thank you all. It's been a joy. Kyle, thanks for listening to this episode. The Tom Ellef Center for Missions exists to equip the next generation of missionaries at Oklahoma Baptist University. Regardless of your major, you can come to OBU, get a world-class Christian education and get equipped to take the gospel to the nations. Our prayer is to send students from the local church through OBU to the world with the gospel. For more information about us or the Ellef Center Scholarship, follow the link in our description and come visit us at OBU.